60 miles south of
Denver sits a wet dream of one of America’s highest profile industrial military
complex and what my parents referred to a town full of holy rollers know as
Colorado Springs. In layman’s terms, “The Springs” is sandwiched between the
Air Force Academy to the north, Fort Carson Army base to the south, with
Peterson Air Force base guarding the east and Pikes Peak as a natural buffer to
the west. As a child driving through The Springs meant the hopes of catching
gliders in the sky, billboards for the North Pole: Santa’s Workshop, Garden of
the Gods, Pro Rodeo Hall of Fame, and army tanks on maneuvers rolling over
hills. My impression from a car window view was the town equaled one huge
playground I was continually denied of. The only time my family indulged me a
little was when they pulled off the interstate for a quick bite at Denny’s.
Other than playing a handful of shows down there in my late teens and early
20’s the place still remains a mystery to me.
During the early
80’s, what intrigued most of my friends and I about Colorado Springs was NORAD,
short for North American Aerospace Defense Command-a bunker type fortress
tucked inside the Cheyenne Mountain Complex made famous in the 1983 movie,
WarGames. The film plays up America’s cold war obsession of being on the
constant brink of World War III with loosely thrown phrases such as
M.A.D.-Mutually Assured Destruction. Nuclear war paranoia was a pasture for
where a great number of punk anthems were written on.
I supposed I was
flabbergasted when I learned there was punk rock in Colorado Springs. The town
seemed like a breeding ground for acid rocker dropout types tearing up the
streets in muscle cars. Of course I imagined these types of kids coming from
postwar ranch styled homes with manicured lawns looking to piss off their
retired military fathers.
Ante Bellum was the
first punk band I knew of from The Springs, mainly because I remember making a
flier for a show where my band was set to be the opener. As mostly intact as my
memory is, it is suspect if the band actually played that particular night.
However I do recall seeing them a handful of times and thought their set was a
solid mix of punk and hardcore with emerging metal licks, a trend many bands
were flirting with at the time. In Ante Bellum’s case, they were a cut above
the rest at playing it.
The band eventually
folded leaving guitarist Dennis and bassist Patrick to form Expatriate. This is
about the time I became friendly with Patrick and asked them to contribute a
song to one of my Colorado Krew compilations. Live, Expatriate raged beating
listeners to a pulp. Had they been from either coast, more accessible, the band
had the chops to be huge. They often played with their sibling, Dead Silence
and proved to be an ideal combo on any given night.
Patrick was a
prominent figure in the Colorado Springs music scene helping mold Mosh Pit
Records with his business partner Wendy and later their fanzine, The Pit—a
staple in the underground metal scene. One thing I could vouch for Patrick on
was his commitment to helping out other bands and tirelessly working on getting
his label out there. He always came across as half-full sort of guy and brought
a positive can-do energy to the scene at large.
It has been decades
since we last chatted. I felt it was essential that he be included in this
project so us non-believers could get the real scoop on what it was like to be
a punk rocker from Colorado Springs.
In loving memory of
Dennis McPherson.
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| Ante Bellum. Original photograph Danny Stewart. Brush and ink drawing by Bob Rob (Medina) |
I read that Ante
Bellum started out as No Truce, a high school band? Did you play any sort of
battle of the bands losing to a classmate’s lame version of Hotel California?
No Truce was a band
I started with two friends from school and a young woman I knew named Bonnie
Ramsey who was a punk rock DJ at a local college station. I would hang out with
her at her punk rock radio show.
The way I remember
it, Dennis, Sean, and Dave, who I had not met before the talent show or
whatever it was, were looking for a bass player. They heard about my band
through a friend of theirs who had talked to Bonnie. This was in 1984; I
was 16 and a sophomore in high school.
So Dennis and Sean
came to my school’s talent show to see my band. It all sounds very
after-school-special except you gotta remember we were really terrible and
could barely play our instruments. We did Louie
Louie and possibly an original punk song or two.
Dennis and Sean
said they were looking for a bass player and a drummer and we may have had a
practice session or two. Then it came out they already had a drummer or maybe
Bonnie had quit and we got Dave. It went something like that.
So Ante Bellum was
a completely different band from No Truce: I played bass, Sean MacDonough on
vocals, Dennis McPherson on guitar, and Dave Fruh on drums. It took us a while
to settle on the name.
Colorado Springs is
a hotbed for conservatism, what sort of reactions did punks face living there.
What was it like to going to shows there?
You know, it wasn’t
much different from everything else in Colorado Springs. It was fun to act like
we were oppressed punk rockers fighting against the system. In reality we were
having a great time and the resistance we faced as a band (or as a punk rocker)
were the same we’d faced doing any other kind of art—there isn’t much place for
it in a town like Colorado Springs. You mostly work with people in a small
group who also have similar interests. In your interview with Headbanger, he
summarized the way it was back then: when you met anyone who shared your
interest in underground music, you suddenly had an awful lot in common.
We weren’t really
threatened. There were drunks copping attitude late night at Denny’s or people
hollering at you from their cars because they noticed your fluorescent high
tops. At least, I didn’t feel threatened. The most threatened I ever felt was
not from jocks or rednecks, but from skins in Denver. Even that wasn’t so much,
but the skins were more hazardous than the general populace for sure.
In retrospect and
in light of what it’s like to be a young black man in this country right now it
is easy for me to see how much privilege I had as a young white man in a
Colorado town in the 1980s and how easy and fun it was to do whatever the hell
we wanted. We started fanzines, rented clubs, put on shows, operated tiny businesses
with no experience…we were teenagers. Of course it was difficult! But we got
away with it, which in retrospect seems more like a gift than a struggle. Sure
it was a lot of work, but I loved every scrap of it.
 |
| Courtesy of Jill Razer. |
The scene in the
Springs always seemed to have a good relationship with Denver’s. Our bands
would go down there and you guys would come up here. What places were there to
play down there? How big was the scene in the early to mid-80’s besides Ante
bellum and the Creeps?
There were several
other bands around. We shared a practice space with Willy the Disk, who
fashioned themselves as an agri-(as in agricultural)core band; mostly guys from
the Midwest, from small farm towns who went to Colorado College. I don't
remember a lot of the other bands’ names, though there were some cover bands of
note that we sometimes would play with. The Auto No in particular.
As for places to
play, Bennys Basement was a 3.2 bar on the Colorado College campus. They would
sometimes have all ages shows and other times they would just let kids in even
though they were underage. You could even drink watered down beer.
Climax Cavern was a
bar in another basement, across the street from the campus. We did a couple of
shows there including at least one all ages show. Corrosion of Conformity
played there in the summer of 1984 and that must have been all ages. I think we
did another big all ages show in fall of that year because I remember getting a
lot of kids from my school to show up and it was packed.
Jeepers Creepers
was this old country bar, formerly the Wagon Wheel? out on East Platte. Dennis
managed to talk some club manager guy into funding it as an all-ages club, and
we pulled it off for a few months, though it didn't last long. I can’t remember
why…it was probably tough to pay the bills without selling alcohol. It was a
great place though, big empty box with a huge dance floor and decent sound. We
played there a lot. Bum Kon played there as well; I remember bumping into Mark
as he was coming in for his set.
We also played and
put on shows at DJ’s Nightclub, the place where we met Wendy, our future
manager and collaborator on Mosh Pit et al. And at a goth-y 3.2 bar called the
Annex, which was a regular hangout even when there weren’t shows going on. We
managed some all-ages shows at both venues, as well.
Later in the 80s,
when Dennis and I were playing as Expatriate, we played a wider range of venues.
When I was working with Mosh Pit, Wendy and I would put on all ages shows at
rented spaces, private clubs, Elks Lodges, and the like. The venues varied
more. We were really pushing the all ages thing so we played in fewer bars.
There were so many kids looking for something to do and this was when metal and
punk were starting to mix more, which really increased the number of bands in
town and expanded the musical conversation.
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| Early Ante Bellum show. Flier courtesy of Trashistruth.com |
Bum Kon enjoyed
playing down there. Bob mentioned that one of the news channels ran an episode
on the punk scene in the Springs and taped some bands at a show, what do you
know about this?
I don’t remember
the TV thing, but I remember two times that Bum Kon played in the Springs, once
at Benny’s and once at the Germanic Hall with the Fluid and Ante Bellum.
I have a copy of
the live Ante Bellum tape. I hear some strong metal influences, was the band
more of a hybrid, maybe punk attitude and more thrash? What were you guys
listening to at the time?
Listening to the
Ante Bellum recordings I am struck by how unformed the music feels. Yes it’s
influenced by metal. Dennis was into older British metal like Black Sabbath and
really introduced me to that whole sound. Sean was listening to a lot of Dio
and Iron Maiden. I liked faster metal too, along with hardcore punk. We were
all listening to a lot of things. I liked hip hop and big band, Dave was really
into the Police and Dennis listened to lots of stuff. Both Dennis and I were
into all of the current music that was happening in punk, hardcore and metal.
It seems like the late 80s/early 90s were something of a renaissance for
underground music, in particular small punk rock bands. It was great to be a
part of that whole effort and have all that new music to listen to.
Would you consider
the band political because I see a theme in the line of names?
I remember Ante
Bellum being sort of political. I definitely considered punk rock as a way to
comment on political situations and events. Listening to the recordings I
remember that our songs with lyrics by Sean were more personal with some
political stuff, but not much.
Expatriate was more
explicitly political and almost a protest band, if only anyone could have
understood the words. There were some love songs in there too, though. I was
doing a lot of the lyric writing at that point and I had a lot to say about the
Space Defense Initiative, environmental justice, censorship, and other topics.
Really, in the
mid-late 80s, how could you not be political? The Reagan/Bush years!
Jocko?
That was one of
Sean’s songs, again a personal thing. I don't remember if there was a textual
hook other than “Jocks are lame”, but probably someone got beat up in that
song…
What sort of
adversities did you faced as a band? I don’t know why, but I have Blues
Brothers vision of you guys playing a bar behind chicken wire and a bunch of
cowboys calling you guys’ faggots and throwing empty cans of Coors at you?
Please tell me that happened.
Unfortunately, this
never happened. When I was in Blowhole, a free-jazz/noise band a few years
later it happened all the time…well, not literally, but we cleared many a room
in Colorado Springs, later in Seattle, and all up and down the west coast. Free
jazz was the new punk circa 1994.
Was Ante Bellum
allergic to the studio or just plain poor like other punk bands?
We actually
recorded two demo tapes in a real studio. It sounds weird to say it now, but I
don’t think it ever occurred to us to release music ourselves on tape or
otherwise. A few years later I was swimming in self-released product of
my own and many others, but even then it was a real departure from the status
quo to create your own product, your own record label, etc. That didn’t stop
people from doing it, but it sure was a different climate back then. Nowadays
bands release their own stuff as a matter of course.
If I recall correctly,
Ante Bellum’s approach was to make a demo or two and then in the style of the
time we would shop it around to labels. We did send tapes to Metal Blade, SST,
and probably some others. Nothing came of it.
When Dennis and I
were performing as Expatriate we went into the studio with the intent of
releasing our own record after scraping up cash and so forth. Again, it was a
long time ago, but making records and recording in the studio was not cheap. We
were all minimum-wage workers so it was a tough situation at best. The
Expatriate record did pretty well and helped us start up the distribution
network that I continued to work on for several years…which is a whole ’nother
story.
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| Expatriate. Original photograph by Andy Spillane (R.I.P.) Brush and ink drawing by Bob Rob (Medina) |
At what point did
the band reach the point of no return, run out of fuel? You and Dennis
continued playing together and went on to form Expatriate immediately after
Ante Bellum. What made you want to go as a 3-piece this round?
I remember it was
right when I was about to graduate high school. Spring 1986. You know, we got
to the point where we had different goals. I had an email exchange with Dennis
about six years ago that filled in some of the details. We had been sending out
tapes to labels with no real interest coming back. Sean and Dave had real
criticisms about how we weren’t getting paid and should be. There was
disagreement about whether or not we should be aiming for labels or doing it
ourselves, I don’t remember. I was young, naïve, and didn’t care about making
money or making records-I just wanted to make music.
So after that
meeting we split up. Dennis and I resolved to find a drummer and start a trio
later that summer. I wanted to try singing and we thought a three-piece would
be simpler and tighter. We found Pete Schroll playing in the band, No Fashion. We
politely scooped him up and started Expatriate that summer. I loved Ante
Bellum, for sure, but Expatriate was my baby. Dennis’s too, I mean we were
locked in and we pushed that band as hard as we could. We had a great run of
it, but not very long- late summer 1986 until spring of 1988. We did the record
in 1987. Played a ton of shows all up and down the Front Range. Had some
seriously fantastic shows, experiences, and played with a lot of amazing bands.
We were fortunate to get on as the opener for a lot of "big" punk
shows right at the time when Suicidal Tendencies, The Exploited, etc were
headlining shows at places like Norman's. I still occasionally hear from people
who saw us at one of those shows and remember it.
Were you and Dead
Silence blood brothers, did you all make a secret pact?
Nothing secret
about it, we were really good friends and had great times playing shows
together and hanging out. We traveled together to Rapid City for a show, and
also once to Albuquerque. Good times at the gigs and in the towns and on the
road. Albuquerque was in about 1985 with Ante Bellum…Rapid City was 1986 with
Expatriate. Expatriate went to Rapid City again, but not with Dead Silence (or
Dennis).
 | |
|
In high school I
accidently saw Megadeth at the Rainbow Music Hall, I think they opened for King
Diamond. Anyhow, my not-old-enough-to-drive-yet crush bought me a gift that
night for taking her: a Peace Sells…Who’s Buying t-shirt. Years later you
wrote, Megadeath Sells…was that a nod to how awesomely cheesy they were?
Oh, quite the
opposite. I didn’t know much about Megadeth, but in my fiery teenage
self-righteousness I took their “Peace Sells....but Who’s Buying” record title
to be a cynical dismissal of working for peace. No idea if that’s what they
actually meant, but it made me mad back then so I wrote a song about, and I
quote, how they were “fucking sellout bullshit.”
In retrospect, I
can’t support this message that I created so many years ago, because I don’t
actually know what Megadeth meant by their album title. I never thought about
it much. Just wrote a two-line song and kept going.
How did you get
involved with The Pit and Mosh Pit Records? I thought it was cool that you and
Wendy started something down there and had that crossover vibe. I have to
admit, I was scared of that satanic shit when it became more her operation
years later. What did you think about that change? Did you see it coming or was
that more of a natural progression on her part?
Expatriate was
trying to release our record. We’d played at DJ’s Nightclub a few times or put
on some shows there or something. Wendy was the booking agent there. She
suggested she be our manager and help us put the record out. We didn’t want a
manager, but she and I basically became business partners in order to release
the Expatriate EP and then in order to sell it we decided we’d start an
international underground mail order company, Mosh Pit Records. In order to
promote that we’d create a catalog that was a fanzine, The Pit.
So we did all that
starting in 1987 when the record came out. Expatriate broke up not too long
after the record was released, but I stuck around till 1990, did seven or eight
issues of the Pit, helped produce some records and a lot of other stuff. It
amounted to graphic design school for me; Mosh Pit was where I started to learn
to typeset, use digital layout programs, and create publications-getting them
printed and distributed.
Just for the
record, Expatriate also released a second 7-inch EP on Heart First records from
Germany. The record was a live recording-six songs from a performance in
January of 1987 at the Longhorn Saloon and sound was done by Jimmy of the Rok
Tots. There were about three people in the audiences at the shows, I believe we
played two nights. We gave it our all and got some good recordings.
 |
| Expatriate set list. Courtesy of Todd Grow. |
At one point you
were doing your own “documenting of the scene” project. Was that for school? It
seemed that you had a good eye for photography. How far did you get on the
project?
It was a month-long
project in senior year of high school. I created my own photography class
documenting the Colorado punk and underground music scene. I photographed lots
of bands, shows, and interviewed everyone. To present it, I had a photo-poster
shop enlarge the final photos to huge paper posters, 2x3 feet, and arranged
them all on a wall of butcher paper, which I then decorated with a collection
of flyers torn from various walls and poles. I also spray painted various
graffiti all over the place. The interviews or parts of them were tacked below
each poster-photo.
The whole thing,
rolled up, would barely fit under a bed. I didn’t keep it too long, but I wish
I had.
Later I created
another poster of a photo of Gibby from the Butthole Surfers from their Locust
Abortion Technician tour show at Norman’s and gave it the same treatment. I
pasted it to a board and plastered it with flyers and spray paint. I called it
“Butthole Surfers Are God, part II” and got it into a juried photo show in
Hays, Kansas. True story.
To hear Ante Bellum and Expatriate click on the links below.
