Skinheads have always been a touchy issue within the Denver
Punk Scene. They were often renowned as the bad seed. With this project, former
skins have been invited to participate and express their opinions and involvement
in the scene. Most of them started out as punk rockers and later discovered Oi!
music and the aesthetics associated with it.
I don’t condone any of the violence that happened at the
shows, skinhead or otherwise. Punk and hardcore is a form of expression that
can easily be swayed towards pushing, shoving, leading to altercation. With
that said I was friendly with everyone in the scene including the older skins.
I hung out with them and still consider them friends. Much of the violence at
shows during the mid-80s was simply teenage angst and alpha male power
struggles. We were all outsiders so we had to project a hard image to keep the
general populace from fucking with us. Punks and skins adopted a pack mentality
to ward off jocks, hicks and the like. Many times when we collided with outsiders
is when things got heavy and fists were thrown. That’s the way it was for a lot
of us growing-up.
The skins were an intimidating element
to the scene and later sensationalized and simultaneously demonized by mass
media. One on one, they were approachable. As a group it was a different story
for non-punks, other punks that weren’t part of their extended group and
newbies at shows. The dichotomy was that the group was somewhat exclusive, but
yet they were friendly with others within the scene at large.
I went to school with the early
core of the Denver Skins and therefore our friendship was more on an intimate
level. We’d hang out after school, listen to music, and watch them tear it up
on backyard skateboard ramps in suburban Aurora. I helped with a couple of
shows they promoted, drank beers together, and got tattooed. Other friends
would ask why I hung out with the skins, it was simple, “We’re friends.” I
didn’t question their actions and they didn’t question mine. We seldom talked
politics, beliefs, religion, and didn’t need to. Back in the day, people bonded
over similar interests and co-exited that way.
As people have grown older, many of
the old scenesters have become more forthcoming about their politics. I don’t
get into that much. Punk to me has always been about the music, dropping out of
the system and making life on your own terms while being respectful of others.
Outside of defending yourself, I don’t support violence and make a conscious
effort these days to avoid confrontations.
Big Chad is a friend, an original
Denver skinhead and short-lived front man of Immoral Attitude. My fondest
memory of Chad is sitting in his dark basement apartment across the street form
Wax Trax drinking beer in the early afternoon listing to Oi! albums. He and the
other guys in Immoral Attitude helped develop my love for English street punk.
Big Chad discusses being a punk
rocker, defines what a real skinhead is, his rational for disliking rap music,
sheep that can’t cook, drugs, and his time singing in a band.
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| Chad, Jeff and Dan with Vinnie and Craig of Agnostic Front. Photo courtesy of Denver Punk Scene FB page RIP. Brush and ink drawing by Bob Rob Medina. |
Immoral Attitude and Uberfall, was there ever a sense of competition,
friendly or otherwise since both bands played music in the spirit of Oi!?
At a certain point of time there was. I don't know if they
felt it as much as I did, but I certainly wanted to blow them off the map.
I think the difference between Uberfall and Immoral Attitude was
Uberfall had a wider range of friends at the beginning...Flye and Big John were
the social magnets of the band so they always got everyone out to their gigs.
Do you want to hear a story about Big John?
Sure.
The first time Iron Cross toured, they ended up staying at
my house for a week. It was the shitty apartment across from Wax Trax. We had a
great time. They slept on my floor and we'd eat at Taco Bueno and drink beer. I
took them out to Cherry Creek for a swim... Anyhow, they played a pick-up show
with Tex and the Horseheads at Christian’s. They had time to kill before
heading out to California to play with Chron Gen and then going down to Mexico
to play a gig at Iguanas in Tijuana. I don't think they ever made that show. On
the way back they stayed with me again.
A guy with Iron Cross at that time was this cat named James
and he had played in the skinhead band, Combat 84. Sab knew and brought him on
tour because they were friend back in England where he is originally from. A
couple of years later James comes back through Denver and now he's playing
guitar with the fucking UK Subs. It was for their 10th anniversary tour. Do you
remember that show?
Yeah, my band opened up for them at Norman’s.
The UK Subs drummer, Rab Fae Beith, was a force of nature-he
was something else. We went to the show, the Subs played and knowing James we
met them at their hotel after the show. Do you remember a guy named Darren? He
was the big time Capitol Hill cocaine dealer. The funny thing was, he's Jewish
and liked to hang out with skinheads, before the racist thing was in full bloom.
We ended up at a party with Darren and he's got a piece of cocaine that looks
like a bar of soap in a plastic bag in his pocket. We are there with the Subs
so we raised-up some money. He starts to shave it off with a knife. Everyone's
fucked up. The band had a roadie named Bubbles, a fat skinhead guy and gets in
an argument with Paxton so everything is going wrong from the start. I don't
know how it happened but we ended up leaving and headed over to Lisa's house.
Lisa is kind of the punk princess and Big John was there.
Another friend of mine who was out of his head on cocaine was moving around a
lot. He bounced into people and they would just push him-he became a human
pinball. He bumps into Lisa and spills her drink. She gets pissed off and
throws what’s left in her glass at the UK Subs including Rab. Rab is Scottish and
built like a fucking fire hydrant, he's just solid, bleach blonde hair, punk
rock style with a braided tail in the back tied with a red ribbon. He looked
like a fucking pirate. Lisa takes the rest of what's in her glass and throws it
on him and starts denouncing me saying what an asshole I am because I brought
them there. Rab has a bottle of Sunny Delight filled with half juice and half
vodka and slings a big gulp of that into her face. Then Big John comes up and
gets all bad and starts talking shit and telling him, "Fuck you" Rab
headbutts him and he goes to the ground. It was definitely a concussion. The
first thing Rab says is, "In Scottland, that is what we call a
headbutt." Everybody starts saying, "Why the fuck did you do
that?" He replied, "He was fucking saying shit about me mate."
Meaning me. As we're leaving, this is a great punk rock moment, who's coming
in? Stiv Bators from Lords of the New Church and he is with Charlie from the
Subs. That was fucking cool, both bands played the same night at different
clubs. That was one of my great punk moments: hanging out with the UK Subs and
doing a bunch of drugs with them, getting into a fight and they stood up for
me, plus meeting Stiv Bators on the way out. I finally got to sleep a couple of
days later.
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| A Chad flier. Collection of author. |
New Wave girls?
All the girls liked bad boys in the 80's, meaning skinheads
and punks but when you talked with them they worshipped Ronald Reagan. I
remember being at one of those nasty gross basement apartments where Jill and
Jeff lived playing board games and drinking beers and there would be these new
wave chicks and they're all in to Reagan. Goddamn, I wanted to throw them out.
I was telling them, “How can you be wearing your little fairy boots and you're
into the punk rock stuff, and yet vote the same way as your parents?”
People from the burbs were like that.
I want to answer a riddle for you, a riddle you’ve had for
years. Now, I had completely forgot about that Black Flag show where Nig Heist
got arrested.
Yeah, that was the show you got up on stage and talked into the mic....
And the question that seems to be lingering in your mind was
why did I say, "Why did God invent women?"
Because she can't cook?
It isn't
"she" it was "sheep"
Sheep can't cook?
A fucking animal covered in wool. S-H-E-E-P (Laugher) It's funnier
now isn't it?
I have that show on tape, it was broadcasted on the Wild West Show on
KGNU. The funny thing before they aired it, the station played the disclaimer
stating something to the effect of, "the following material might be
offensive to you or a family member so please tune out for the next few
minutes." And you know how that show went with them getting arrested in
Denver for indecent exposure and lewd behavior. It was a flurry of obscenities
for 20 or so minutes. Even the commentary on the radio was hilarious. Someone
called the station wanting to dedicate the song, Tight Little Pussy to a girl
and Richard the DJ gets on the air and announced it.
As a young man, I was connoisseur of dirty jokes...I'm
embarrassed now (Laughter) you can print that too. I was a wild and profane man
when I was young.
How did you get into punk?
It was the early 80's. We were seeing things on cable TV at
a friend’s house. I saw videos by The Specials and Pretenders. I had a
subscription to the rock magazine, Crawdaddy! and they had full page ads for
Sex Pistols and stuff like that. When they mentioned punk rock, everyone would
be freaked out by it.
Where did you go to school?
Littleton High. In high school, the rich kids were complete
fucking assholes.
They were scumbags, thieves, cowards...travel in packs. I
didn't want to wear the same clothes as them, the same shoes; I didn't want to
listen to Foreigner or Styx. I wanted to do something different. I will tell
you something, there's a flier you posted on your article about the Frantix,
the first show I ever went to was Rok Tots, Dogmeat and the Frantix at the
Boulder Free School. I remember dressing like a new wave kid and going to the
show with a girl I knew. She worked at Burger King in Southglenn Mall with Mark
from Bum Kon. Mark was clued-up and knew about the hardcore stuff that was
coming out and we didn't. We found out about the show from him. So we drove up
there. I walked in and I see this guy leaning on a bar and he's got on Levis,
black suede cowboy boots with chains and bandanas tied around them, a mohair
sweater, a bandana around his neck and spiky hair. He looked so fucking
awesome. He looked rock and roll epitomized. It was Garrett Shavlik. I wanted
to look like that. Inside the show it is a free for all...chicks walking around
screaming for the fuck of it because there's no rules. There were people slam
dancing and I got on my Hawaiian shirt and sneakers I spray-painted pink to
look new wave, rude and offensive. I think I might have had a skinny tie and
buttons on my shirt and those cheesy wraparound punk rock shades. I'm with my
friend Holly and I told her, "I'm feeling it, I want to get out there and
slam dance" Both of us had never seen it before. So I took off those
stupid new wave sunglasses and snapped them, threw them away and jumped in the
fucking pit and got bashed around and never looked back.
And going back to high school, the Pee Chee folders with the
drawings of the guys running, playing basketball...we'd took a pen and made
their hair spiky and wrote stuff like Dogmeat, Frantix on their shirts instead
of doing school work.
How did you get into Oi!?
There were things about skinheads in the punk rock magazines
that were coming out. It wasn't clear what it was; it just seemed to be a cut
above punk rock. It came across as something like a gang, something a little
more elevated, it seemed like skins didn't take any shit. I had no fucking clue
that it existed in England, the history of it...I just knew that these guys
seemed a little braver. The biggest thing to remember is how much fucking shit
you'd get from everybody. Do you remember that Bob?
 |
| Wanting to start an Oi! band flier. Collection of the author. |
Of course, if you're a punk rocker, you invited it. We all got a ton of
shit from people for looking the way we did.
For nothing, everybody just wanted to kill you. My
impression was skinheads were people that stood up for themselves. I really
liked the UK sound and still do more than anything else. I loved the Exploited,
GBH...At a Big Apple Records shop in Cinderella City I discovered Oi! The Album in the import bin. The
bands on that record were the Cockney Rejects, Exploited, Angelic Upstarts,
4-Skins...I was, "Wow" this was the sound I really loved.
Here's the biggest part, I was working, I've always worked,
always had a job, and I always valued the people that I worked with. I felt the
look of skinheads made it more palatable to get a job. You shave your head, you
got your Doc Martins on, some jeans, a Fred Perry...you know you're not going
to get hired if you go in with a mohawk and black leather jacket full of studs.
Do you know what I mean? It is completely unfair, but that was the reality of
it. I needed to work, to take care of my family and that’s it. It's like a
fucking glove. Essentially Oi! is the same kind of music as punk, but maybe a
little sower and both sing about a lot of the same things. It made sense to me.
I attribute you and the guys from Immoral Attitude for turning me on to
Oi!. I've been to several of Oi! shows in the states and in Europe. When I saw
the Business in Spain or Peter and the Test Tube Babies in London, it was a
totally different vibe than back home. Everyone was singing along, buying each
other beers and having a good time. There wasn't any attitude, nobody was
sizing me up because I didn't have the look...I was up front with them singing
along and drinking ales.
It's amazing isn't it? Here we are, dissatisfied with what
goes on, but we're still loyal to our county, football club...and we work. We
have girlfriends, families, and jobs. Tell me what you felt at those shows?
Everybody was cool, people were stoked to see the bands...There were
skinheads of all shapes, sizes, skin color, whatever. There was definitely a
uniform and people that showed up were in into it and not because it was fashionable.
I hung out with a couple of skins at the Business show and went down to a bar
with them before the show. About the only problem was I didn't speak
Catalonian, but got by with some Spanish. They turned me on to a couple of Oi!
bands from Spain and I went to the record store next day and bought what they
suggested. It reminded me of the old days when you’d meet another punk or skin
and become instant friends, It’s not like anymore, at least when I go to shows
in California. And the racism thing, sure it was nationalistic, but everyone
seemed to respect and not bother anyone else.
There was a time when a lot of people flirted with racism in
the 80's. Unfortunately in the early 90's “skinhead” got full-on coopted and it
just disintegrated into racist nonsense. To be totally honest, I wasn't immune
to that. But anybody with any fucking brains realizes that isn’t the way to go.
I flirted with Nazi monkey business but I never got into it and I never hurt
anybody. I never understood why people would want to go to a punk gig and wreck
it.
It seems like that came later with newer skins. I never felt like the
older ones intentionally ruined shows; sure there were skirmishes but nothing
like the violence later on.
I think a lot of the original hardcore punks, the guys from
East High, I feel like they failed us in camaraderie. We would go and see their
shows, and write their names on our t-shirts, and we all did that. But I feel
like they had this territorial imperative because they lived in the city and
went to East and the rest of us were from the burbs.
You felt like they were snobbish towards the suburban punks?
Absolutely. Completely. I remember going to a gig in
someone's backyard and I want to say it was Child Abuse or Peace Core; one of
those bands was playing. There were 100 antagonistic jocks there probably
wanting to throw the band in the pool-it was the kind of house that had a pool.
Some rich Cherry Creek girl threw a punk rock party when her parents were out
of town. And the band played and all the local boys showed up wantingto beat up
the punks. The verbal that was going on was that skinheads were here and that
wasn't going to happen tonight.
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| According to Chad, Target of Demand never showed. Collection of the author. |
Did you think the skins were the Guardian Angels of the party that
night?
You know, in a really stupid way I wanted skins to be. It
never happened. I guess I thought it would be like motorcycle club, just like a
brotherhood of likeminded individuals, we go to the shows and there's people
fucking with the punk rockers and we could help, but it ended up the other way
around (Laughter). It was squabbles, people just talking shit, "I'm going
to get this guy, I'm going to get that guy" A show would be a place to
fight. I hated that; it's a really bad memory. I remember doing that.
Do you remember Craig form Canada; he dated Cassy for
Psychotic Reaction? I remember he was talking a bunch of shit, saying he was
going to smash skinheads. At DOA, this was a Jill show and that's why she used
to hate me. I started spitting on him and calling him out, trying to fight him
on a dance floor. And two years later, we're friends and I felt badly about
that.
You know, writing about skins for this project has been sort of a taboo
subject. It almost seems like people are waiting for me to bring it up. The
time I did, I got flack from both directions. The overall consensus of what I
wrote was that it came from a neutral perspective of stating the facts. If you
read it there are no judgments. You even busted my balls a little bit about it.
I’m almost certain I will be criticized for this post as well. Everyone has
their story and it is as valid as anyone else’s. The Denver Skins were the
elephant in the room and tends to be stuck in the collective consciousness of
the Denver scene. For some people it is legit, like Hale from Burnt Fase, he
was pretty much chased out of Denver by the new skins.
Skinheads are having a revival returning to its proper roots
and meaning; there are so many bands that are playing right now. There are a
lot old skinheads in San Francisco and everyone's happy. At the Cock Sparrer
last year there were no fights, sold the place out of beer, broke the toilet,
no aggravation... I'm 51 and I'm done fighting, I don't know how people settle
their scores anymore...everyone has guns now and have for the last 20 years.
When's the last time you saw a proper fistfight? If you're ever going to see
it, it'll be 2 proper skinheads doing it and when they're done, they're going
to have a drink. The gang mentality took over everything.
Some people say that rap music brought in a lot of that.
I'll go on record, I hate rap, fucking hate it. A lot of it
is the lowest common denominator. I hate the materialist aspect, the gang
aspect, and misogynistic treatment of women in it. It's like watching the Home
Shopping Network. You listen to Cock Sparrer: “I been working all day for me
mate on the site, Running around like a blue arsed fly, I been working, And I
been working all day for me mate" Then you listen to rap, "I wear cologne, I rock the microphone..." ahhh fucking hell.
Totally different worlds, one is fantasy and one is reality.
Exactly.
You know Chad, I can see why people like the escapism. People struggle
coping in the real world so they create an alternate reality in their minds and
emulate their heroes from popular culture. A lot of kids get sucked into this pseudo
reality that worships consumer and materialism. The worst part is the cheeping
and the devaluing of life. I don't get it. I'm fine with rap or any music if it
has meaning rooted in not bringing down people; stuff like referring to females
as bitches and capping someone's ass. I don't get it; it's like watching
yourself jack-off in a mirror.
Yeah, music should be played with instruments! It's all
commercial shit. Remember when you bough a new hat and didn't take the tags off
on it? (Laughter) Preposterous materialism. Being a skinhead, you realize this
is who you are, this is what you have, and you work with it. You know you're
not going to be the CEO of Google; you work on a building site. Like when you saw
the Business in Spain, you're not listening to Jay-Z telling us how much Cristal
Champagne he drinks, you’re listening to Micky Fitz singing about the National
Insurance Blacklist. Do what you can with what you have and find joy, pleasure,
and pride in it. That’s where it comes from, pride in your class, and pride in
your background. People don't get it, you're not going to be Warren Buffet,
sorry.
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Best fake sticker ever made. According to the band, it was a poster.
Courtesy of the Tom headbanger collection at the Denver Public Library. |
Immoral Attitude?
Do you remember Chris having a Volkswagen Bug? One night
we’re heading down to play a show and we stopped to get gas. Chris goes inside
to pay and comes running out. There were these rednecks that wanted to fucking
kill us. We had to get the fuck out of there. Chris pushed that Bug for
everything that it was worth; he was going through red lights, stop signs…
Every time we stopped they started getting out of the truck. It was four of
them and two of us. They chased us for 30 fucking miles, all the way from
Chris' house, out by where you lived in Aurora all through Denver and down to
Christian’s. We pulled into the parking lot with the rednecks still behind us.
They took a look at all of us and everyone man'd up and that pick-up truck just
backed out and left. (Laughter)
It seemed like Immoral Attitude was a revolving door of members?
It was really Chris and Dave's band. They didn’t have much
going on until I joined. With Tommy, they didn't write to many songs. I wrote
song and we were good. We tried. I wish it could have gone further. Part of why
I didn't play with them anymore was I got a little mouthy on the economics of
the band. They came from money and I didn't, so I told them to have their
mother rent us an RV and we can do a tour and they took exception to that. They
went, "Tell your mom to rent us an RV" Well, my mom didn’t have money;
we were poor. Honestly, as far as a band that ever played that was the best
line-up. I have a tape in my storage of songs we recorded and it’s still good
to this day.
Chad changes the
subject
I understand why you want to put this Denver Skins thing in
your book; it was certainly a part of the scene and mostly for bad. I can only
speak for myself. I'm not quite sure how you deal with that. This sounds so
arrogant, I was basically there at the formation of the Denver Skins: Sammy,
Holly, Gary and his girlfriend...it was four friends and years later it turned
into a nightmare. I guess I'm wondering how do the skins fit into your project?
I think to paint an honest history of the scene you have to be
inclusive. I have interviewed: fans, bands, promoters, DJs… just about someone
from every element connected with the scene. I included all the genres: punk,
hardcore, industrial, new wave, experimental, because they were all infused.
I'm interested in people's stories and contributions good or bad. I don't think
it would be right to purposefully exclude any group since everyone contributed.
Though out this project I have been keeping in mind that we were all kids when
we were involved in this. I always assume that when people talk with me, they
are telling me what was in their heads 30 years ago.
I respect that. It was predominant. Denver was huge with the
skin thing for a while.
I think violence at shows is a relevant topic. It changed people's
attitudes about going to shows; it changed the dynamics of the scene. I would
even argue that problems at shows created factions and micro scenes. Granted
bands were changing as members learned their instruments better and wanted to
play something other that fast songs. When bands like Brother Rat and the Fluid
formed, a lot of the hardcore kids didn't go to those shows.
In the beginning White Trash, Dogmeat, and Frantix-that
stuff was great. Then it turned in to the Fluid, 57 Lesbian and thought that was
boring even though they were great at what they did. You know, there were a lot
of lost souls in the punk scene and you know what they did? They found the most
negative element and followed that.
What needs to be mentioned was that we didn't have guidance.
If we were coming up now we would have guns. Everyone was trying to take their
shit out on their own, for good or bad. Some people got into heroin and some
people got into Nazi monkey business. We were fucking kids.
Yeah, with perspective and age, it's like, "Whoa" I know
several punks and skins who changed completely and do stuff like to church, as
if to repent for choices they made in the past or basically to be a better
person. I support that. There are a lot of things out there to keep people
down. I think once you stop living off your parents and have kids, buy a house,
and take ownership of your actions it’s a totally different story. Now you have perspective and appreciation for
things. I did post on how it was in vogue for punkers to complain about their
parents, you know, the default punk rock rebellion button. Fast forward 30
years and a lot of old punks have kids and everything has come full circle. Final
thoughts?
Being a skinhead was really an influential part of my life,
I still consider myself a skinhead to this day. Like I said, real skinheads are
about pride, traditions, being a better person and not the negative stuff that
happened.
