Happy World and Hippies: Shane's world.

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The word, the term, the very idea of anything associated with “hippy” has always been the anti-Christ, the kryptonite, the Ebola of punk rock. As punk rockers we all steered clear of that word and immediately quashed any notions that punks and hippies shared any common ground, much less belonged in the same room together. The H word suggests visions of brightly decorated VW vans, love-ins and sitting around a campfire passing a joint talking about peace-a far cry from punk.

Certainly the Sex Pistols resented the movement with their slogan, Never Trust a Hippy. Black Flag/SST artist, Raymond Pettibon dedicated many of his drawings and even released one of his chapbooks with the call-to-action title: O.D. a Hippy, Legalize Heroin, Ban Hippies. Hippies couldn’t even catch a break from one of Hardcore’s most forgiving and open-minded bands, 7 Seconds who sang the line “succeeding where the hippies failed.” Lets face it, punk was anti-hippy even though members of both counter-culture groups shared similar sentiments about non-violence, non-conformity, anti-system, and unity.

Courtesy of the internet.

Not all punks passionately hated hippies; most were probably indifferent. But the association with long hair versus the buzz cut look lead to profiling and harassment within the Denver scene. Punks had the notion of embracing the concept of tolerance but even that idea proved to have limitations when it came to certain aesthetics and groups of people. Perhaps punks were only barely tolerant of each other.  

Happy World versus Hippy World.

Denver’s Happy World was NOT a hippy band even though some people in the scene referred to them as Hippy World. Members of the group did flirt with drugs, psychedelic imagery and aesthetics, rightfully branding the group somewhat. However the band’s music paints another story, one that doesn’t summon images flower power. I think of crunchy, driving, snappy guitar lines interplayed by breaks of tuneful bass notes topped with sudden and unexpected tempo changes only begins to describe the band. Had the group stuck around longer, the music would have been the ideal soundtrack had Atari released a punk rock video arcade game.

Yeah, Happy World was definitely a 100% punk band in both sound and attitude. They were a product of the suburbs and all the boredom which led to experimentation with sounds, drugs, or otherwise. The band came at the tail end of the fading hardcore thrash sound and took all those sensibilities and individual musical influences and put it the blender to inch out their unique groove.

Happy World was somewhat of a loveable oddity that was part of the hodgepodge Denver sound. By the mid-80’s the Denver sound meant most bands were off forging their own styles and the only common thread was geographical location.

Although Nate Butler was a critical equation in forming the band in 1983, he departed shortly after in search of new musical horizons on the west coast. I’ve always considered Happy World as Shane, Dave, and Gant. The unit put out a handful of great albums and when they played live, especially in the later years, they transcended punk and were on to something much bigger. Watching the trio at their best was like capturing a glimpse of people lost in their own world locked into a channel trapped in a collective mindset seducing the audience with their infectious synergy. 

The harsh eventuality for Happy World was the all too common rock-and-roll story of addiction and substance abuse. Drugs destroyed the band. Sadly, there’s no other way to sugarcoat that statement. The good news is that Shane is a fighter. He is someone who wants to overcome his challenges and move forward with his life. We chatted several times on the phone and through e-mail about what lies ahead for him. I’m hopeful about his musical aspirations and art-making endeavors. I appreciate and admire Shane for being open and honest about his time in Happy World. 

             

How did you get into punk, what was your first show?

I lived by Wax Trax until the sixth grade before moving to the suburbs. I would save up my allowance to buy records there. I went from the Beatles and the Rolling Stones type of stuff to Bowie. I graduated to Bowie early on. I was going to buy the KISS album Destroyer and they gave me the first Ramones record. That was in 1976, I was 10 and that was pre-Sex Pistols. I embarrassingly went through a progrock phase listening to Rush and Yes. During that time, I was listening to punk, but not all the time. I was into the English punk. I didn’t know about the Germs or any of the American punk bands except the Ramones and Devo. In 1982 I saw a flier for a show on Washington Street. I figured out the address and I had a couple of friends with a car drove us to it. The show was the Frantix, White Trash, and Bum Kon. It had to be an early Bum Kon show. I thought it was fucking awesome. The venue was a little fucked-up place; it was definitely ready to be torn down. I also met Headbanger at the show. I was blown away-I did not know American punk rock existed. That was my first show and I loved it to the max and I even slammed around to it a bit. The bands were kick ass. I kept going to shows after that.

Maybe it was Slovenian Hall?

It very well may have been Slovenian Hall. But it didn't look like a hall in my memory. Anyhow, when I was in my San Fran band; The Boy Explodes I wrote a song called Slovenian Hall. The lyrics are: In the halls, Slovenian Hall, The Frantix, White Trash and Bun Kon... A wild sound a dangerous crowd that's where we found the underground.

Happy World. Oil, ink on paper. Bob Rob (Medina)

What made you want to start a band?

Happy World was my first punk band. I had been in a band during junior high with some friends. We only had a couple of new wavey songs. Happy World was the first real band. What made me want to start was that other people our age were playing shows like Peace Core, Bum Kon…it made us less scared to do it.

I played with my brother, Gant who only had a snare drum. By then I was going to Mountain Open High, an alternative school. Gant played the snare and I played around with him. He started getting pretty good and I thought, wow, we could start a band because I was already inspired from other punk rock kids playing.

How did you hook-up with Nate Butler to play bass for Happy World?

I saw him at shows and I knew him from the neighborhood. Nate, Davey, and I lived within a few blocks of each other. Nate was older and I remember him when I was a younger kid, getting into skating way back when Skateboarding magazine came out. There was a big paved hill that the older kids would go down. Nate was a part of that older group plus he had a quarter pipe ramp. This was back before anyone had those.

Nate was a skater?

Oh yeah, he was a wicked skateboarder. I saw that guy zipping down that fucking hill standing up and I'm like, “Who the fuck is that?” Some one said, “Those kids are the crazy kids.” We went to Nate’s house where the ramp was and watched people skate. That’s where I first met him. He was playing in U.S.A. in 1983 and Happy World started playing at the end of ’83. We needed a bass player, so I just asked him. Nate played on our first record. He was an important part of Happy Would and we wouldn’t have existed had he not started Gant and I off. We originally played our first show with a new wave kid named Ken. Ken lost interest because he had a new wave band that played parties. Davey took over seven months later after Nate left Denver. Davey and I went to the same school and we were best friends.

The name Happy World?

I remember having a list of names and the phrase happy world was an ironic name with hippy sensibilities. I was a hippy and a stoner and had seen the Grateful Dead nine times by the time I was 15-years old.

You were a stoner?

I smoked weed from the time I woke-up until I went to bed from the age of 14 until I got into hard drugs. Pot sucks now.

Happy World sort of rejected the typical hardcore sound and in lieu of forging your own direction. What vision did you have for the band?

A lot of it was Davey on the first record for sure. He was into Zappa and the Minutemen, I was a huge Sonic Youth fan. When we first recorded, we brought in Social Distortion’s 1945 single to reference because we wanted our record to sound like it production wise. The engineer misunderstood, he thought we meant our sound. I'm not really sure why we sounded like we did. I was a Deadhead into the Sex Pistols, KISS, Beatles and Bowie. All that was influential on the way I played guitar in Happy World. All hardcore is basically minor pentatonic scales…the Rolling Stones kind of shit, but speeded up. I took playing serious since junior high school.  My training was in notes, scales, and chords. I learned what to play on top of other notes. We weren’t afraid to experiment. In many ways I feel the band conformed too much towards the hardcore sound.

How did you fit into the scene since you considered yourself a Deadhead and had the Bowie influence?  

I was into punk right away because punks are individuals. I initially gravitated towards that. Denver was behind the times because punk was already dead in a lot of places like San Francisco and L.A.. By 1984 the original punk bands had all changed and were growing out their hair. Then came Grunge, that shit was all made up by the press, those guys all had long hair because punk had become lame.

Do you think the Frantix and later the Fluid was the original, quote unquote grunge band?

Definitely, Happy World was sounding that way to towards the end. We were way more rock and roll. We grew our hair because that’s what was going on in Denver. The suburban jocks got into punk rock and that is when the violence started. Punk was originally about non-conformity and I got that right away. Unfortunately hardcore became a conformist scene. You had to look a certain way to be accepted and Happy World got caught up in that. We played with Agnostic Front and the Cro Mags at CBGBs 1985 or 86. I was thinking that we were going to get beat up because we had long hair and there were 100's of punk rockers and skinheads in the Bowery and at that show. Of course we didn't get beat up because we were a punk rock band. The point was punk rock was conformists at that time; mohawks, shaved heads, leather jackets… People took hold of the negative aspects of punk rock. That attitude came to Denver and people were beat-up and killed. The irony is punks were hurting outcasts. Some factions became the right-wing of punk rock.

Punx Unite, Assholes Die, did you get shit for writing that song?

It was about violence at shows. I went to a lot of punk shows, knew a lot of people and hung out at places like Kennedy's. I would watch people at shows throw the new people around. People would get punched because they were new and they just wanted to check out the bands maybe because they had never been to a punk show. And people would get hurt for no fucking reason because some dickhead didn't like him because of his hair or not looking punk enough or whatever fucking reason. There's no reason for doing that to some for just watching a band or maybe dancing around a little bit. They weren't thrashing around or running into people or anything that would warrant that. The song was about seeing that violence time and time again. And it sucked. We never got shit for playing that song. The people that were at the shows didn't know what the song was about. The assholes didn't understand they were being assholes.

Collection of Tom Headbanger.

Do you think the people who were being assholes in you opinion were part of a weeding out process to see if people belonged at our shows or not?

In a sense maybe, depends what it’s about. That's where the conformist jock mentality came into hardcore. Why would you have to make people belong at a show? Especially with a place like Kennedy's Warehouse; they needed people to go and support the shows. I saw so many fucking empty shows at that place. I'm talking about Discharge and bands like that. Empty. Maybe 50 people most was considered a good show at Kennedy's. And you wonder the person who got punched for no fucking reason except that he didn't look the part. I think shows would have been way more crowded had there not been the "bullying" and conformist violence against new peeps checking out the gigs. The song isn't specifically about anyone in particular; it's about the consistent violence I saw.

People always make a comment of how young Gant looks on the first EP, How old was he when it was released?

When it was recorded he might have been 13, but he was 14 when it was released.

The first tour?

It was Oklahoma and maybe Kansas City. It wasn't easy getting shows unless you were somewhat hooked -up. We went to the east coast twice and did really well. However, when we wanted to play the south, most of the shows were cancelled, except Texas, it was always kick-ass playing down there. 

When I would see the band, especially during the later years, it seemed like you guys really locked into a groove. Did you feel that way? It seemed like you got lost in playing and that the songs just naturally flowed?   

It was a lot fun and much of that was being a 3-piece. We practiced two-three times a week. Almost every practice started with jamming. Dave would come up with something and I would play on top of that and Gant would have an idea for the beat. Plus everyone listened to different music and that brought a lot to our sound as well. Gant got into metal like all drummers do. That was a time when metal didn't leave such a bad taste on my mouth.

How did you hook up with Rabid Cat Records?

We were looking for a label. Rabid Cat signed different bands. We played with Scratch Acid often and they were on Rabid Cat. Many of label’s bands were different sounding.

Tell me about the rumor that you were trying to get signed with SST.

I tried SST. Greg was always nice to me. I knew Greg from promoting shows. I worked with the guy Jordan Schwartz from SST’s booking agency; Global Network. In the end, getting signed with SST didn’t work out.

You had a fanzine at one time didn’t you, what made you want to start one?

 I can't even remember the name of it. It was fun and easy to do because I had access to a copy machine. I started it because I was a fan and wanted to be more involved in the scene. I looked-up to Flipside and MRR. I figured if other people did it… It was similar to being in band. I eventually ran out of time and interests in continuing it. If I had other people that were into it, that would have totally been a different story, I would have kept it going. 

How did you get into promoting shows? What sort of problems did you encounter booking shows with bands or audiences?

That happened because I knew Headbanger and knew that sometimes he needed help with shows. I started scouting out places to put them on. I helped Headbanger find the Eagles Lodge up in Thornton. I liked doing shows, it was similar to booking a tour in many ways. A show Headbanger and I pulled off…Tom had an idea and I ran with it. It had to do with the SST booking agency. They called and said the Swans want to come to Denver, but they wanted way too much money. But the Swans were ONLY going to play Denver and L.A. period. Nowhere else would do it. At the most, 1% of the people that saw that show knew what they were seeing. It was history. I didn't even like the Swans in that era. I knew their music a little bit, but it was an undertaking and we pulled it off. I had my ears stuff with toilet paper standing there while they played. It was so loud and I wasn't that close to the stage and my ribs were vibrating because the bass. And they destroyed Mark Thorpe’s drums.

Promoting helped me with my people skills especially because I had to tell bands they weren't getting the money they were guaranteed. (Laughter) The only reason why the Swans made any money that night is because the DC 3 van broke down. People actually went to the show to see DC 3 only because Dez was in Black Flag. No one would have gone if they knew what DC 3 sounded like.

I was there and it was a crazy show for sure especially when the little skirmish in front of the stage broke out. Michael Gira started screaming at the people fighting; DON'T STOP! KILL EACH OTHER over and over. It was vey confrontational, but funny. Most of the time bands try to stop fighting at shows instead of encouraging it.  

The band was gracious at the end of the night when I told them, "You know we went through fucking hell to give you this money, and yeah, it's a few hundred dollars short, but here it is. It was a bold thing to do. In retrospect I would have not done that show alone. Headbanger made it happen. I knew it would be cool to bring a band like the Swans, they were a very heavy band.

Other crazy shows?

The Lady's Choice was all me, all by myself. That place had the best set-up for the shows. It was jazz club, Denver was had a serious jazz culture in the 30's or 40's. Famous jazz musicians played there and that place was a kick-ass club. I brought D.R.I., Agent Orange, D.O.A., JFA...and those bands sounded really good in there. The Lady’s Choice was located down in Five Points, it was hardcore part of town. The neighbors pretty much left people alone. I believe the punks and the skins knew better than to fuck with anyone that lived around there. It was amazing that we did shows there without anyone actually ever getting hurt. People didn't fuck with my shows because they liked me and because I sold fucking weed and had parties. And if you fucked-up at my shows you were barred from the shows and barred from my parties. People behaved for the most part.

A Denver police captain’s daughter had been going to shows there and his wife calls him at work and asks, “Do you know where our daughter is?” The cops raided the club and that was it.

Look out Michael Jackson, here comes Happy World. Collection of Tom Headbanger.

At some point you started to get heavy into drugs.

I had a drug problem from the gate. Waking up and smoking weed until the time you go to bed at the age of 14 is a fucking problem, a serious problem. I got into heavy drugs because I tried them. I got into opium; I don't even say the name of the drug because a lot of my friends died using it. If you shoot it it's dangerous. At best it's 5% pure. The only reason why I'm even alive is because in NYC I forgot to bring my needle with me. I can say this about drugs, I learned everything there is to learn about drugs really fucking early on. Addiction runs in my family. I believe it is a genetic thing. I knew I had a problem with drugs, but I didn't really accept it on such a deep level on what a hardcore addict I am. I can't use a little. I tried. My biggest regret in life is selling LSD. I didn't know what people did with it. I don't know if someone took a couple of hits and never came back and is fried forever or....Drugs cost me everything band wise, music wise, life wise…it wasn’t worth it.  

Tell me about your awesome handwriting? Was that part of the band’s aesthetics?

That's just how I write, I don't even do that on purpose. During 5^th grade my teacher made me come in for hours every morning for more than half the year to work on handwriting. We went over and over all the letters. When we came back from Christmas break, the teacher finally said "Shane, you're really trying hard, aren't you?" I was, "Yeah, I've been trying, I've been trying the whole damn time!" I didn't really say damn, but she goes, "It’s ok, Shane, you don't have to do this anymore." That was it. I kind of like my handwriting. Maybe one day I'll show some of my art I make with it.

Happy World art. Photograph unknown. 

The song Cold River has the line, ‘Sexually abused in lost in the woods’

That was a movie, and not a very good one. I knew at the time no one had really seen it. It was on cable when cable was new and it had just come on one of the movie channels. The song Cold River is just about two kids and how their daddy died in the river. Plus they were sexually abused and lost in the woods. I don't even own that record anymore.

What prompted the band to move from Denver to San Francisco? 

We wanted to make it band-wise. We loved the city, we moved there at a great time, got a kick-ass practice space. Punk was dead. We weren't going to make it in San Francisco by being the type of band we were. We got some shows and continued to play.

The Sisters of Sodom?

I think Nate described it best. The band was just a lot of fun. It was a tongue and cheek joke band. We were supposed to be lesbians from outer space and we were screwing our way around the universe to spread cheer and good fun.

What were Happy World’s last shows?

I'm almost positive our last shows in Colorado were at the Mercury Cafe. We played our newer songs. We didn't know it would be our last shows. Gant and I recorded a 5-song cassette without Dave. My drug addiction was the end of the band. Gant and Dave started a new band, Hate Holiday. They were already playing shows after two months. It bummed me out, but hey, it was my fault. By that time I was living on the streets; a homeless drug addict. I spent 3 years of my life, not solid in a row, but 3 years, 3 x 365 in a county jail cell. I was in San Quentin for 18 days on a 90-day observation. Which, thank God, I was able to go back to the long-term Walden House. Going back there saved my life for sure. When I got out was when Happy World and Dave didn't want to do it anymore. Dave was getting ready to move away. It wasn't the same band without him.

Shave has some unreleased Happy World material. If you are interested in contacting him, click HERE

Unnatural Sex Acts: A Candid conversation with Nate Butler

One night when my dad was driving me home from a show, he asked the names of the bands I saw and quickly shuffled the name U.S.A. past him, hoping he wouldn’t ask what it stood for. At the age of fourteen in the pre-internet era, the band’s name had many implications I wasn’t quite aware of yet. I honestly didn’t know what came to mind upon hearing the words Unnatural Sex Acts. My dossier of sexual experiences in 1983 amounted to some leftover Playboy magazines stuffed in a drawer my bother left behind when he enlisted in the Navy.

The first time I saw U.S.A. was when they opened for Kraut and G.B.H. at the Aztlan. The size of the vocalist and bassist along with their brand of angular music was intimidating. Their serious demeanor certainly emitted the vibe that these were the type of dudes you wouldn’t wish to agitate, much less been be caught in a dark alley with.

Over the past six months, bassist Nate Butler and have had a series of conversations. I’ve arrived at the conclusion that he is a no frills kind of guy when it comes to his music. What I admire most about him is his candidness and openness when it came to answering the tough questions I threw his way. Frankly, his responses have been all meat. My sincerest gratitude to Nate for taking the time to be a part of this project.       

In memory of Scott “Deathy” Ray

Nate Butler. Original photo unknown. Brush and ink drawing by Bob Rob (Medina). 

Several years ago Razer gave me a file with fliers of your former bands. The interesting part of that collection was the notes on the reverse side regarding the shows you played: members in the band, the bands you played with, how much money you made, and a short summary of the show. Tell me about your obsession for this sort of note taking.

I dunno really. All I ever wanted to be when I grew up was a rock star and I suppose in some perverse sort of way I thought it was meaningful at the time. As humorous and heartbreaking as some of those notes were it was a very exciting time for me, as was chronicling it.

Nate's notes. Collection of Nate Butler.

When did you realize that you wanted to play music? And how did you end up playing in a punk band?

I've always been into playing music, the School band, yada yada… I remembered my 3rd grade teacher Mrs. Henry would meet me an hour before class started in the mornings so I could learn the cello. I was officially too young to join the official school band; I had to be a 4th grader. Funny thing was she was not a musician or a music teacher. She was a wonderful woman and teacher and left a lifelong impression.

What got me into punk was attending a show at the old Pirate Art Space on 23rd and Lawrence St. where the Rok Tots and Broadcasters were playing. Not only was the music raw and cool unlike Van Halen and AC/DC who were the go to rock bands at the time. In the middle of one of the songs an audience member, Louie was fucking with the Tots and the band dropped their instruments mid-song, jumped off the stage and pounded him. Afterwards they went back on-stage and finished the song. I thought that was the coolest Rock'n'Roll thing I had ever seen. I was hooked from then on.

Dave Saull was my neighbor at the time and was taking piano lessons with my sister. He was a cool little guy and I asked him if he wanted to start a Punk band. We recruited my best friend Scott "Death" Ray and U.S.A. was born.

U.S.A. stands for Unnatural Sex Acts, right? Was the band a fan of The Rocky Mountain Oyster, Denver’s classified ad sex newspapers found on the counter of liquor stores in the metro area? Who came up with the name? And for the record, did anyone in the band practice U.S.A.?

Scott Ray and I used to eat a shit ton of LSD and go dancing at the Gay bars. It was the only place we could be all fucked-up on drugs, act weird, and be totally accepted. One night driving home from the bars I just came up with the name Unnatural Sex Acts while we were having an acid fueled conversation. Seemed like a good name for a band.

Yes, both Scott and I were bisexual, practiced any and all forms of kink. I've had HIV for 25+ years to show for my battle scars and reckless sexuality.

Did you find punk accepting of alternative sexual lifestyles? Did you find it easy to be open about your sexuality in the scene? Members of the band A.S.F. were open about their sexuality, is/was it different for males?

No not at all, quite the opposite for males. I think only a couple of people in the scene even knew about our orientation, I could be wrong though. We even wrote a couple of songs aimed at homophobes, and queer bashers (Girls Get Cumfarts Too, and My Blue Dog). Upon the Skins arrival it became even more uptight and homophobic.

Flier collection of Nate Butler.

I only saw U.S.A. a couple of times, the first when you opened for GBH at the Aztlan. You and the vocalist, Scott really stood out mainly because you were big dudes with shaved heads playing something that wasn't quite hardcore thrash. The combo of the two was an intimidating factor nonetheless. What sort of sound was the band going for and what were you listening to at the time?

Dave and I were the main music writers, and I wrote 99% of the lyrics. Mostly what happened with the musical styling’s of U.S.A. was, Dave and I were both strident Zappa listeners and intuitively we'd write this mish-mash of cuisenart sort of genre mixed music. We never really set out to have a "sound" it just happened that way. Pretty sure Mike Patton would have appreciated what we were doing back then.

The GBH show made us seem really aggressive. The more drugs Scott would take, the worse he would sing, and the more the aggression in the act would ramp up to make up for bad singing and forgetting lyrics-my lyrics were pretty wordy and complicated, he always had a hard time with delivery.

With rock star aspirations and careful documentation, I’m surprised you didn’t record and release anything with U.S.A. You did play on the first Happy World EP.

U.S.A. never made it into the studio mostly because of drug use/abuse. I don't think we ever honestly thought we'd record because the audiences didn't care for our music too much so therefore it probably wouldn't have sold. Maybe that's how we perceived it/them at least. Dave and I wanted to record but could never find the time to get everyone with a somewhat sober Scott Ray into the studio. Kinda sad because two of my favorite bands I played with, U.S.A. and FAEX never made a recording. I always felt them musically worthy of recording and releasing some great records.

First Happy World EP 1984. Garage punk from Colorado. The drummer seems to be incredibly young (judging from the cover pic) and the guitar lead in the title number is so lame it's cool, but the songs have entertaining lyrics and plenty of primitive drive and spunk. For fans of unprofessionalism (like me). -Jeff Bale (from Maximum Rocknroll #16, August 1984). Cover courtesy of Trash Is Truth.

Scott had the nickname, Deathy. How did he get that? In talking with a couple of people, they mentioned that they were a little afraid of him. Rumor had it that he often packed a gun. I read about one incident at Flash Flood Art Space in an issue of Nada. The article was titled: The Day Hardcore Died and it described a show your band, Sisters of Sodom played. It sounded like the night involved you, Scott, skinheads, cops, mace, a knife, and a gun. What went down?

Scott was a dyed-in-the-wool bad ass for sure. Also one of the sweetest most giving guys I've ever met. He named himself Death Ray as a stage name. The girls called him Deathy, maybe to piss him off or make him laugh. They named me Nay Nay thinking it'd piss me off. I just thought it was stupid. Jill still calls me Ne Ne (in French accent) because I sew and design patterns etc.

The Flash Flood incident went like this. The Denver Skins were ruining yet again another otherwise friendly show. Dan had some poor scrawny kid in a headlock and was dancing around the pit beating his face. I finally snapped, looked over my shoulder and asked Scott if he had my back. He replied, "Did you even have to ask?” I turned to a couple of other musicians who were standing there and asked the same thing only to be met with blank scared stares. Next time Dan came around I grabbed his victim, threw him out of the way and planted one square in Dan's face. Squared up with him knowing I was gonna essentially get my ass beat because Dan was 6" taller than me (Dan was a towering 6’ 8”) and considerably more muscular. He took a couple of steps back and reached behind his back to grab something. I'm of course thinking it's a gun. Meanwhile the rest of the skins are surrounding me wolf pack style like they always did. That's when my knife came out. Well Danny didn't pull a gun he pulled out a can of mace and sprayed it at me. I ducked and ran out of the way of the mace and into Larimer Street figuring the brawl would ensue in the street. As I turned around I saw Scott pistol whip Dan in the head as he came out the door followed by the rest of the skins. Scott backed-up next to me in the street and leveled his gun at them, which forced them up against the wall still spraying their mace at us, which inevitably blew back in their faces. Scott said something to the effect of, "I have 14 shots in the gun, there are 9 of you, and I don't miss!" This essentially ended the fracas right then and there. One of the skins, Jeff walked up to us and said, "Are we good, is this over?" to which we replied, "Yes.” We left at that time, ditched the firearm, and went home. Apparently Dan walked back into Flashflood and passed out from the pistol whipping. The Cops and an ambulance came and pretty soon the cops were at our house and arrested us on, Brandishing A Weapon charges. So much for it being "good and over." We bonded out that night, set it for trial knowing the skins would never show. The cops never found the weapon in question.

Funny thing. I was at a party a few years back and was talking to a guy who told me a story about this Nate Butler guy who basically saved his life from the skins one night at Flashflood, and how he wished he could go back and thank him. I introduced myself to him then.

Scott and I always carried guns and knives back then. Just stupid testosterone dummy fucks we were.

Nate and Deathy

What was it like walking around Denver with a shaved head, were people intimidate by you and Scott?

Yep, for sure. Which was really stupid because we were both really approachable nice guys as long as you didn't try to start a fight with us.

Scott recently pass away?

Yes, sadly he died on October 30^th, 2013 of pancreatic cancer. So heartbreaking because he'd done hard time, was finally completely clean and sober, and had become a very humble and loving man. Death Ray was gone for good, or that's what he told me at least. I had the honor of being by his side through the entire cancer treatment, to death.

I have to put in a little side note here in Scott's and my defense. In the entire time we were involved in the Denver Scene I never saw Scott, or myself get into anything more than minor "pit skirmishes" here and there. The only thing that ever constituted a fight was Flash Flood. I think most of the reasons we seemed so violent/aggressive was Scott's stage act, which was an ACT. It was very verbally aggressive and confrontational for sure. He was also 6' 7" tall, which as you stated.

Aside from Flash Flood, any other wild incidents?

Not so many wild incidents really. Once I remember Anarchy Annie, who I was dating at the time threw some guy against the wall and choked him because he and I were going to square off and fight. I'm sure Annie would have gladly engaged in a fight with the guy, but she was definitely defending me. As she was choking the guy she was telling him, "Don't you fuck with my boyfriend!" It was very sweet and hilarious all at the same time. I think she caught us so off guard that we completely forgot why we wanted to fight in the first place.

Flier collection of Nate Butler.

I get the impression that you were at one point trying to make a go with your music. You even left Denver to go play music in California. What brought that on? What sort of frustrations were you feeling in Denver at the time in playing music?

As I said before, I wanted to be a rock star when I grew up. Denver was and still is the place where musicians come to die. It was hard to keep a cohesive scene intact. Lord knows all of us tried. Top 40 cover bands ruled the roost and still do to this day. I hear it's gotten a little better, but really who the fuck ever came out of Denver besides Firefall? I moved to San Fran thinking I'd be able to find a decent band to play with out there. Sadly, I went from being close to the top of the heap in Denver to just another musician out of millions in the Bay area. So that was pretty much unsuccessful.

After I returned the scene was different…long hairs, alternative metal, and so on. I just kept playing with different bands and different styles of music. I've recorded on 15 albums over my rather dubious career and covered about as many genres. Once I started the clothing company and had my daughter the music fell to the wayside until the late 90's when a buddy and I did a downtempo electronica project called The William Caslon Experience. Alas still no fame and fortune. Most recently I've been playing all sorts of Country, Alt Country, and Americana. I'd like to play some Sludge Metal in the near future. WTF I'm only 53 why the fuck not?

Like others in bands I've interviewed from your generation, you've stated that you dropped out of the punk scene. I have a problem with that statement and when people say that because it is almost dismissive of how the punk attitude, ideology or whatever you want to call it shaped your ideas about the world. I don't think you stopped playing punk, I think perhaps you and others were taking the music to another level and maybe it doesn't sound cookie-cutter punk per say, but the approach and sentiment are definitely there.

Yeah that's a good way to phrase it. I just stopped playing punk music. The ideology is still there and never left. But I always have to factor in that I would not be the person or musician I am today if it weren't for Frank Zappa and he didn't have anything to do with punk.

Flier collection of Nate Butler.

After U.S.A. did you start focusing on Happy World? What made you want to leave that band? Even in Sisters of Sodom, you didn't quite get away form the Shane.

I quit Happy World/Sisters of Sodom to move to the Bay. I loved Shaney and always will. He did not have the heroin problem when I was with the band. Shane and Gant grew up in the same neighborhood as Dave Saull and myself, so it only made sense that Dave would join up with them after I left. They were like our little brothers when we were doing U.S.A. and they needed a bassist so I joined. Gant was maybe 13? I felt like the old dude that scored beer and weed for the little kids when I went to practice. The Sisters was just a fun mutant project with all the brothas and Mark Fucking Thorpe was a fantastic guy to have as a drummer. And there ya go again another highly sexualized band name with a great shtick of a stage story-mostly the Sisters fucking Mike Ness.

The Sisters fucking Mike Ness?

So the back story/stage shtick behind The Sisters (made up by Shane mostly) was: We were a bunch of lesbian sex goddess's sent down from our planet by our ruler Beef Cake to fuck and suck and spread our disease throughout planet earth, and universe. Mike Ness was definitely a topic of our fucking in many rants and songs. I think mostly because he was such a politically conservative guy, and he was short. We all liked Social D's music just fine BTW. In the beginning of every show Shane would tell the story (to music) of The Sister's quest and then we'd all do an improv rap about each band member. That band had kind of an all-star line up of the Denver Punk Scene. We had Shane and Dave from Happy World, and U.S.A. respectively. Mark Thorpe from Bum Kon. Aron Arnold and I ended up doing a couple of bands, XEQ and FAEX.

Shane was always so fun and funny to play with I really loved the time I spent in Happy World and The Sisters of Sodom. He was so raw and spur of the moment in his songwriting and performing, almost a childlike exuberance and enthusiasm. I just heard from him via FaceBook. He's clean and sober and attending college in CA. GO Shaney!!!

In the mid-80's, during your post-punk years, what were you hoping to accomplish musically? It seemed that you started one band after another, did you find it difficult to keep something steady going?

I just wanted to make a career out of music so I was essentially a band whore, meaning I'd play with anyone for any reason. I have the bad hair 80's glam rock videos to prove it. The last band before my kids were born was called FAEX. FAEX was a bunch of fantastically talented musicians from UNC school of jazz, playing John Zorn/Mr. Bungle-esque trash/pop/musical A.D.D. They actually got Westword awards, were packing clubs like 23 Parish and Rock Island and looked like they might have gotten signed until that project imploded for a number of reasons.

Did you feel that U.S.A. was overlooked in the scene? I'm looking through old fanzines and I never really saw an interview and barley any gig reviews.

Well, I think our songwriting approach was too artsy for the punk scene. Razer told me once, "You guys are great but you play too many notes." I think we were also too capitalistic for the punk scene; we wanted to get paid money to play gigs. I also think that Scott would get into drugged out asshole mode and alienate a lot of people. I remember one review Duane Davis wrote about us where he referred to us as, "A band of dubious pedigree." which I thought was a hilarious statement considering punk was supposed to be about freedom of expression not pedigree or fitting into molds.

Special thanks to Ana Medina for proofreading.